just one question you have one apple. Now my question: How often can you sell the apple?
What you just tell me one time? Isn’t that unfair, one should be able to sell it as often as one want or not? Well if not, tell me what will happen if Greece sells off? How often does that work and what changes if the expenses still are way beyond the income?
So you say, that will not help? You’re right, but they try to sell that as a solution.
Now you understand the head line of this entry?
Well according to the press the ND has got 30 % of the votes. Well that’s not even in deledefs meaning enough to be seen as clear winner. And it surelly isn’t even in the crudest
deledefs dreams the majority. So do the Greeks have voted for the Euro. Well at least we no that nearly as much and probably many of the non-voters do not
favour the Euro. But it could be that the Greeks know what they have with the Euro, a shield against their own deledefs. And it seems they do trust at least this
shield more but their own deledefs.
That would at least make sense to me. I wrote it here and pointed it out. With a new Fiat-Drachme currency the way into inflation and degradation of the currency is
as clear as the moon and the sun in the sky. You can pretend it’s not there but you know they are there.
So should one congratulate the Greeks for that vote. Well know, they have voted for the same parties, and some of them want to go on with the party without bearing the consequences.
Greek still is bankrupt and it’s not heard that they have minimized their state “workers” that much. We’ve not heard or read that much was done against corruption. So Greece still troubles the same
problems as the day before yesterday. A state way to big. way too much statism, and strangling of free enterprises. The (nominal) taxes still are increased and in the name of fighting corruption, it seems
they just have introduced more “rules” which it seems not to many bother for really.
It’s also not recorded that the property rights were enhanced. At least I have not heard and read about it. I’m interested in any moves they did to really clear the mess. But sorry, the mess gets IMHO bigger by the day.
The Banks are near bankrupt (well that’s fair indeed) , and the will to really cut into subsidies etc is no where in sight and so they “hope” for the next round of debts to get them out of the trouble caused by debts…
That haven’t worked, does not work and will not work as long as there is an economy…..
Dear Grees, you do not like the “solution” done by your Deledefs? Well you are not alone. I don’t like it either. You should have not given any money, despite everything else that is the law.
But find now you took the money, well then I’ve some news for your. You must hold contracts. I know that’s old fashioned but it’s the only way things can work.
You don’t like to hold the contracts? So fine just return the money and go your way. I know you have burned the money, so you won’t pay your debts. Anyway if you think that’s ok go.
But don’t expect anything or anyone to help you against your than alone ruling Deledefs. You think you’re better of without the Euro? Well that could be but your Deledefs will explain to you that it must be a new fiat-Drachme. Well if you think you’re better of with that, I have really bad news for you. You Deledefs will print money as stupid. That means you shining new Drachme will be devalued right from the start in a speed you hardly will believe. Here’s my take on it. The inflation will raise over 10% (I do not think that 25% are the upper bound) That will say in the first case within 7 years your wealth is halved. How do you like that?
If you think to go is better than think about what you do to your deledefs. I suggest sending them to hell. That’s the place they belong to. Insist in a currency as value and do not cry. Getting away form addiction is hurting. And you have lived so long on debts, that not getting new stuff will be hell on earth. Anyway you’ve t pay the debts in one way or the other. Either with honesty (this is the most unlikely outcome) or by defraud. And you can bet you deledes will rob you. Anyway if you think that’s better go. But don’t come along crying how unfair you’ve been treated. You lived on a boom not backed up by anything but hot air. The balloon is busted, and it was you and the promises of an ever expanding state that has lead into that mess. You can try to learn or don’t. It’s up to you, so choose wisely….
Maybe we see the end nearing. The debts worldwide were soaring the last 3 years and still there is not relief.
It can not come as a surprise to the austrians, liberals or libertarians. What we have seen was and just is “credit expansion”. The central banks manipulate everything and
so we do not have any idea any more about “prices” for money. Just remember what I wrote some time ago:https://mises.org/Community/blogs/fdominicus/archive/2011/09/08/who-could-be-suprised.aspx
Feel free so just search a little through older entries and I also suggest having a look at: https://mises.org/Community/blogs/tincho/
I also wrote about what one “should” try. There is one problem which will bite you whenever you are just having money in one country. This money is prone to expropriation. Especially worse is it for countries nearing the default or being in default. Greece should be a warning for every one. There are now at least 3 levels of creditors. IWF and ECB as “primary” creditors, ECS has not suffered any losses (all the papers bought were change to papers with the same nominal value), then come banks (they were partly bailed out, either through ECB, FED or other central banks and they could probably keep there looses below 50 or so per cent. Then comes the private creditor. They had to suffer losses beyond 80 %. That’ s what will happen world-wide. If you think this well be a Greek specialty, think again and doubt it. If you believe the Fed, ECB or whatever political power will not do the same, you can start burning your money immediately.
There will be always problems if you are just “invested” in one country. The laws change and nobody will grant you anything. You own government does not shy away from robbery. So if you have all your property in your country they will get you. So be suspicious and send your money overseas into different areas. It’s unlikely that you will loose everything at once following that route. But be cautious, one larger country getting into default will have implications on other areas also…..
Well if you look through this blog you always could read warnings. Just one example http://mises.org/Community/blogs/fdominicus/archive/2010/02/22/f-b-ailouts.aspx
But let’s see at the Situation without malice. For austrian economics the problems in Greece are crystal clear. What we see is the end of a boom introduces by manipulated interest rates.
Yes and it’s one hallmark of why the help from EU can not work. The greek politicians have took every cent they could get from the EC. That’s what keeping ones house means in politics. All the
expenses for things were not driven by need and sound money. But driven by the way it works in politics. You must throw out the money, otherwise you will get less next year.
Well in normal economics activities it does not work that way. You invest while you a) see some need for your services and b) you want happy customers… However you do invest usually much more careful. You do know exactly if the customers will not buy your stuff you are finished. So you alway try to get you needs in sync with the things you can offer. There is not automatic payment it’s the customer who decides. Now let’s see how this is not done in political economics. If you ever have visited Greece you know this land is beautiful but harsh. Many live in very small villages, and quite a lot of them are on islands. So transportation is a problem. Anyway if Greece is strong on one area it’s in seafaring. And indeed even many of the Italy ships are manned by Greeks. But now the trouble starts it does not make (unfrortunatly) much sense to build big streets over the islands. But this is what happened with money from the EU. That’s bad. There was money burned, because the ways can not be used economically. They are too big, but now they are there and the trouble starts. They were oversized and therrefor overprizes, and it needs much more even to just maintain them as one could answer for. And it does not help in anyway. The jounger still have left and just the elderly are living there. So who will use the streets in the future?
This are the catastrophies triggered by subsedies. Yes agreed there must be some kind of boom in infrastructure building and maybe even housing. But Greece just has somewhat around 11 million inhabitants. So you can not build an infrastructure suitable for 30 or more millions and hope this can be sustainable. It’s impossible. Another problem in Greece is the corruption and way to large bureacracies. Again countries which more than 5 as many inhabitants do not spend that much mone yon their diverse ministries. (I read somewhere Greece has 49 of them !!!) and politicians, and it seems they are even higher paid than in many other countries with much larger population. Corruption and too large government are a clear sign mark of destruction.
So what can we hope for for the Greek? Well we just can hope they get rid of their functionaries. They must put harsh punishments on corruption (and or just take the responsibiity aware from the bureaucrats), and they needs sound money. I’m afraid this latter will not happen and there for if Greece should leave the Euro the normal population will suffer severly under extreme inflation. This will destabilize the country even more. So I’m afraid the Greece just are at the beginning of the end. And it will (unfortunatly) get much worse. As one can read the decline starts to accelerate. Hundreds and thousands of businesses are driven out of business. How could one expect from less working to have more “money”.
IMHO Greece has spiraled out of control and any “imagination” of control can be burried. No one in Greece will be able to regain it any time soon. The bureaucrats and delebets do not even see it. Of they see it and won’t. But reality strikes and it will strike the harder the longer the wrong ways are followed. Von Mises has put it:
“There is no means of avoiding a final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as a result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved.”
Greece was at the edge 2 years ago. I’m afraid they are beyond it now. So yes you can see exemplarily what happens to unsustainable systems driven by unsound money and too big governments. Will Greece be a warning ot the other countries? I’m afraid the answer is no, And therefor the end of Greece is just the sad beginning….
That even deledefs have to serve their contracts.
In some german blogs it is mentioned that the “haircut” discussions for Greece are stopped. There seems to be some Hedge Funds (what a luck that they exist) which will not agree
to the voluntary debt cut. And they may have a chance to succeed. see also e.g. https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/19/business/global/hedge-funds-may-sue-greece-if-it-tries-to-force-loss.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
It would be a hallmark for responsibility. Yes the Greece have made the debt and yes they have to pay their obligations. This would be fantastic news and we had at least some handling against the
disposal of governments. I hope they have at least enough bonds to hurt the deledefs of all countries considerably.
The non-plan about a “voluntary” debt cut, is gone. Wel if you have followed this blog you know this hardly can be told to be a suprise.
At first If I’m having the bond I have the right to get my money back. It’s up to me and the debtor to figure something out if he’s not able to pay.
And there is the possibility to get an insurance about a non-paying debtor. So if I’m having the bond and such insurance. Why should I disclaim
my rights.
I swore myself some years ago never ever to buy any bond of any government any time again. And so I was out of this bonds in 2009.
So it’s should not be my business any more. But now the states decide to hand out money they to not have to other governments which
are broke. You can imagine how I feel about that. This is theft in it’s worst form. But it’s theft from governments, and then it’s not theft any more.
That’s ridiculous.
Anyway the private bond holders have said. We are not convinced and now it’s obvious Greece is broken. And the “saviors” of the other EU countries are on there way to
be broken also. Even the rating companies, finally realize that. But still they are givign most of the states something with an A in it. That’s stupid and another lie.
Fact ist all but a few countries are broke. Manys in the € zone and we do not have to talk about the US anymore. They has a debt increase over 70% in the last 3 years. They
are completly broken also. So neither of them deserves that anyones trusts them any more.
It seems that trust has gone down the drain. And that’s a good thing. I hope we’ll see the end of this Fiat-money system soon. And I wish this that those which have put us there, get their
deserved fait.
It seems the vote is not held. This is interesting in two ways. At first it would be a democratic thing, that it is not held show that the deledefs do not want too loose anything they may get. Now anyway there will be some vote for a new Parliament, but I’m wondering what anyone else can do. The debts are there and have to be paid. If every party stick to this they do not have a choice. Well the only choice they have is how to “pay†back. Socialists can not reason in an economic way and it seems most of the Greek (which could and had have enough) have moved their money out of the country. This money is not accessible to the socialists they can not tax it (or if they try, the money will not be show again officially, I guess most of the money brought above will be “unofficial†anyway). Now they have big unions and so the way to more free markets will be a very tough one. They can not go along as before, because nobody is willing to pay for their granted benefits anymore.
So no party but a true liberal party has any clue about solving the Greek debt problem. And you know a true liberal party does not exist world-wide. So they are stuck with their socialists of any colour. I can not see how any of the parties in Greek will be able to handle that and so we’ll see a lot of manouvering. The base for them will be: How do we get the EU money without too much work on our side.
Anyway if they will not make it in the forseeable future. the other EU “partner†will have to send down money there over and over and over again. In Germany we have this clearing between countries. And in the German history just one has gone from taker to giving. (That was Bayern if anyone is interested), the other countries like Bremen, Hamburg, Berlin and surrounding just burn money one year after the other and they tell us they can not to differently. That is what Greek will be a country depending on support, they will take this route because it’s more appealing to spongers. And Greek has a lot of them….
So we see everything turned out to be bad for those having to support such countries. But that’s the race to the bottom. It’s not honorouble to make it by oneself no the deledefs of all countries will try to get as much from others and the others will be their excuse also.â€Well we could not do anything about it it comes from …â€
Yes the spongers work hard to make their life most comfortable while harming every one else. That’s their “reason†for living…..
Well I’m just puzzling why Greece does this vote about the EU help now and now a year or so ago. The reasons for doing it were the same a year ago. And in fact it could have made a difference. So I’m under the impression that the problems were underestimated a year ago. It feels as if the leaders just played on time with their old same dirty tricks. Not telling the truth directly but just so much one can not hide.
After this year and a hundred billions more, the truth is even dearer. I wrote here some months ago Greece is bankrupt. And by any means it was bankrupt a year ago.
So I think it’s the right way but to the wrong time. I’m under the impression, the greek politicians now can not deny the trouble they have caused any longer and are not looking for “relaxationâ€. In a way it feels as if they want to lighten the burden and blame it on the “heartless†other partners. Yes it feels to some extend as being black-mailing. And I think Papandreou had to inform the other EU politicians about this before he initiated this vote.
Anyway let them decide, and we’ll see what we have than…
Well I guess you have heard about Greece before. If you are wise 😉 and reading this blog and/or the older one you know that I’ve made my own calculations on the sparse information one could gather. In fact the financial situation of Greece is very diffuse, but now that you know Greece still must have some Millions left:
http://www.defencegreece.com/index.php/2011/10/the-u-s-approved-to-grant-400-m1a1-abrams-to-greece/
If we assume one tank is around 1 Mio €. Well the Greece will not have to pay that they maybe even will get them for “free”. Well if you’ve read the Books of Heinlein you know “There ain’t such thing as a free lunch”. And so the Greece will “just” have to bear “maintenance costs”, “fuel cost (this tanks are not that “thirsty” “just” 10l /km) and it’s fuel the Greece Army has not used up till know (according to http://www.griechenland-blog.gr/2011/usa-bieten-griechenland-400-kampfpanzer-m1a1-abrams-an/5788/) And what did some Trojan says. I do not believe the Danaer even if the give us gifts.
So in the end it will cost them dearly. One could imaging that because of Putins “move” for a panrussion Federation the Amercians would like to have well equipped “buffers” down there. Anyway as you might know also Greece and Turkey are not “that big” friends. And imagine what’ll happen if Greece will break down (you do not believe that could happen) Well think of Argentina, it broke down and suddenly the middle classes where “gone”. So don’t say it can’t happen. It had happened it happens (currently all European deledefs but one or so) are doing anything to make us European more poverish.
And the Americans among you (at least I hope a few are there) , know what it means to live in over-debted countries. And well you middle class is also diminishing. Because neither in the US nor in the EUR zone there is something like market. The bureaucrats and deledefs make the rules and you have to obey at a point of a gun. And well because it is better that the money is in the hand of government (because of it’s great justice) they have to take it away from you..
So the moves should make you think. Why would one support other governments with more and more deadly weapons. Look at Syria, look at Lybia and you may have you answer. It could mean martial law! And if the military is at the top of government, you know war is nearly inevitable. You also know that human rights do not count much in the US any more. There still is Guantanamo there still is Abu Ghreic, there still is torture and well there is “killing” in the name of “freedom”. What freedom is “dictatorship”. So draw your own conclusion. I’m worried and it’s getting worse day-by-day.
especially in regard to the situation in Greece.
Well my opinion about taxes it that they are theft in any case, It’s not a deal you may make or may not do. You live in country X the “authorities” from country X will tax you.
You have no choice but comply, otherwise you will be “convinced” at the point of a gun and/or face hard times in jail.
It would be a little better if you’d have the chance at least to state for what you are willing to pay. Let’ s assume e.g the higway were build from the government. And you use them . The right thing would be to charge only those using the highways. That would be just. Anyway if you’d had at least the chance saying from my taxes x% are for the highways. (It’s just an example) this would be at least fit something a little bit like a market. But you do not even have that choice. So without doubt taxes are payments without some guranteed return. So in fact it’s theft and because it involves the “violence monoply” of the state it’s even worse
But income taxes are less expropriating as taxes on substance and or deat taxes. If there is an even more unjust type of tax, those are the candidates. Assume e.g you earn exaclty the free income before income tax applied. You do not pay any tax than.. Now assume you earn just that much money and have a substance tax, as were introduced in Greece. Now you have to pay the tax and you get taxed before income tax can set in. Now what does that mean. You may have to ask for a credit to pay your taxes? And next year when the same holds the interestes and principals have to be paid and the taxes again?
So in fact taxes on the substance are absolutly incompatible with property. So they are the most unjust things ever put on tax payers. And that’s the way Greece has gone. The requirements and payments get more and more injust. And still the same old gang is at the top. Now tell me something about hate….
Well it’s difficult these times to get some non mainstream reports on Greece. It’s impossible to find much critique in any german newspaper or magazine.
But there are few side remarks borrowed at the end of some articles sometimes, and one can get a little bit more infromaton on the Neue Züricher Zeitung. (Which fails unfortunatly miserable on Swiss affairs)
So this are the information I gathered. Today in the BNN. The greek government has calculated with 30 billions extra taxes, now is was reported. The supposed payers are owned by the Greece state and most of them are bankrupt!!! 30 billions means that this money simply is lacking in the “income” of the Greece state. With the information from here:
http://www.focus.de/finanzen/news/staatsverschuldung/griechenland-hat-ein-bruttoinlandsprodukt-bip-schuldenkrise-kommentar_2542983.html
Greece Gdp 240 billons
Income (taxes) 75 billions
Expenses 105 billions
new debts30 billions.
Well just double the debts with this, and we are in the region of new debts well above 20%, of the GDP. Which still is shrinking. If anyone can see this as sustainable, I’m afraid he should see ones doctor.
Another information from the NZZ stated. That even after a year, the government does not know how many really do work in government or government owned corporations. Now this is a another bummer.
Add to this that the calculate with more than 25% of the working population, is working for government (currently known) and you see how deep their troubles are.
In fact all the figures they’ve come up with are not even guess work, just wishful thinking. So m conclusion is Greece is completly messed up. There is no way that they even will be able to pay more than 20% or of their debt. So in fact the 300 billions of debt must be depreciated to maybe 30 or so billions. So a definitive loss for the creditors of 90%. I’ll bet neither Sarkozy nor Merkel will mention it. So fact is the money we gave to Greece is lost.
My conclusion is harsh but simple: “Game over”. There’s no way Greece can get out of this without a terrible loss of anything. I’m afraid poverty will be the logical consequence. Because the young Greeks won’t find any work in Greece, they will emmigrate. And the GDP will shrink even more. Because of the irresponsibility of the “leading” Greeks, we’ll see what may happen to us. During the great depression, states do not had have anything like that many debts as we’ve before. Imagine the interest payments….
I can not quantify is as anything but devastating. The state of Greece will not survive (at least not in this form), I won’t exclude a military coup.
Greece finance minister warns, if the EU let Greece down.
Guess what Greece alone has 330 billion of debt. and if they fail the end will come. Well hell one might think “Finally”
All EU countries have debts beyond imagination and beyond anything in history (even after wars) and they are “suprised” that this won’t work.
That it could work is as likley as extinguish a fire with a flame-thrower. I’m really getting mad about this Bastards. They have accepted all kind of debts for
the most stupid things one can imagine. They tooks tons of money for other things from th e EU. (I bet no street was build on Greece costs alone the last 10 years)
They made working for the government profitable as nothing else, all in the clea knowledge they do not have the money to pay that all.
So in fact they’ve lived beyond any limit on the costs of all creditors, just to rip of everyone in that country. I’m so angry, that I’m not even able any more to
write anything decent. I wish all the Politicians and Bureaucrats over there a hell of time. Take that you looters.
With an open end? Or are a fan of horror movies? Now I’ve found something for you:
Do you feel the cold of death? Or do you fell hells heat? Well whatever it is pray that this chart changes soon.
Or if you are against government as I am pray that the State goes bankrupt. It will be on of the ugliest things you ever will imagine, But then “markt” will be the only
thing left to survive. I just can tell you see the problems we Germans had. And we got a really good revival. But now we are following the US to our own bankrupt.
Yes savings are now starting and yes that is good, but still there is too much debt in the developed countries. What will happen if the money will be used for buying things?
You can see the assets are rising but are they raising because of good business? That’s the question.
I found two very different videos on youtube about it:
and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRV_b2AFnKw&feature=related
We must also keep in mind the Fed has pumped literally tons of money into the economy. They name it the quantitative easing. But the Fed has accepted securirties which do not deserve that name.
And the banks surely have not lend overly much of the money but the bought bonds and I bet assets. So a question not answered to met yet is. How much of the raising stock prices is due to money looking for profitable investment and how much is really driven by more profits from the corporations. AFAIKT is the unemployment rate still raising. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nsehkDwxBA&feature=related
A profitable recovery looks a bit different to me.
So I’m afraid the recovery still seems to be debt driven and not profit driven. So in my judgment peter Schiffer may lie but there still is no recovery but the money is driving up all the prices. So the higher stock markets are currently bubbled and not sustainable. I don’t know if this will change the next months. But because of all the hampering of free markets I’m not very optimistic. And I just can see the signs that inflation is a problem and this of course is due to the insane printing of money. But the FED never ever will admit that. It’s everything else but the loose money policy of the FED. It’s the greedy bankers, the speculators and everything else. And even if it’s worse now it would be even more worse without all the “actions” That’s the fed way and you can not reject it. The unemployment may be even higher without all the interventions and so they are “good”. But is that really true?
I’m afraid it will get worse and worse, there comes the day the bonds will mature and then? There will come the day where the asset bubbles will bust…. I just can repeat myself, don’t trust government. If you do you’ll be among the first losers… Do not buy anything but values yet. Do not buy any bond of the US or you’ll be sorry. That’s my opinion, feel free to decide differently.
<p>
The highest court in Germany will start “thinking” about the lawsuits tomorrows. This were initiated a year ago before the first money was transferred. Just imagine you know a defrauder, he is caught and one year “nothing” happens. That’s the situation of the “greece helpers”. It’s illegal, it’s against the no-bailout clause. and guess what nobody cares.
</p>
<p>
In fact Germany violates the treaties for the Eu convergence critera. Just hat anyone can remember. 1) not more than 60% debt of the GDP, b) not more than 3% new deficits a year. Nearly no-one fullfilles this things and what happens? Exactly nothing. Greece is beyond 150% new debt of the GDP and probably that’s the most after Japane which over 200% debt /GDP.
</p>
<p>
Just imagine you will among the richest men in Germany with 12 Billions. Probably among the top ten earner. And at the top of this earners Aldi stands. And they exist for now 50 years. So the worth of 50 years of work and service to the people gone today. For scammers. And still the same responsible for the scam are in charge in Greece. Everything they have done was lying and stealing but giving them more money is without alternative?
</p>
The Greek Parliament has agreed and will get another few billions.
Has this changed the fundamental problem? Well let us assume the Greeks really will be able to sell of a few “assets”. How often are you able to do that? Exactly one time.
Now if still the income is not sufficient without this sellings, what will happen then? Now if the Greek have a deficit of more than 10 % in their budget and the selling just bring in this 10%, what
have they won then?
Next years they have the same amount of debt. They have not paid principal they just have used the money for the runnings costs. Well lthe stuff is sold and what now?
Let us assume they do nothing else to make the gap between expenses and income smaller. Then in fact they are worse of next year. They have lost “assets” which potentially can be profitable. But this “profits” are “gone”.
No it’s playing on time. One hopes that in year or so everything will be better. But how will that be done. How many new production lines can one open in a year. And what should they produce? They have not find a way of producing enough for the last 10 years but next year everything will be “solved”?
What you see is what happens if government takes it all. Too many bureaucrats to less productive workers. The result is obvious and still do they start changing that? Well it seems unemployment is on the raise. And now guess what government can not extend the expenditures and if you’d produce in Greece and Greece may default. What will happen to your products. Assume they will get buyed mostly in Greek and the people are unemployed and government also can not afford anything. What are your chances then?
Now without a really reduction of the debt and without budget surplus they have no chance. As I wrote just the payments last year and this year are probably twice as much as every Greek earns a year. So the debt will probably raise up to 180 – 220 % of the GDP and Greek is not known of being a big exporting country. Indeed they earn their money more or less with tourism….
Here are the economic figures of Greek according to http://www.querschuesse.de/griechenlands-industrieproduktion-im-marz-2011-mit-8-zum-vorjahr/ the production has gone down around 8% !!!
the output is down to a level from 15 or so years ago !! the producing part on the BIP in Greece is as low as 9,17%, the overall BIP is something around 320 billions, 10 % of it are 32 billions. Their debt is somewhere in the 400 billion region. Just with 5% interest they would have to pay 20 billions on interest. Fact is the interest they have to offer on the markets are somewhere above 20 % !!!
The import/export budget is 4/2. That means the Greek have to import much more than they could produce. I have not found any figures about the capital in/outflows. But I bet those Greek having something have brought their money abroad. And so tell me whose going to invest then?
A sound rescue looks a bit different to me….
English banks reduce their exposer to EU risks:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8584442/UK-banks-abandon-eurozone-over-Greek-default-fears.html
1:100 that Merkel and Sarkozy will name them speculates. Or traitors or such
Greeks history is near record breaking for defaulting. Just read “This time is different” and you’ll see I’m taking this out of the blue.
Much more interesting is that defaulting seems to correlate very nicely with corruption. For this beeing able to read German check:
http://www.tu-chemnitz.de/wirtschaft/bwl4/interessantes/Korruption_Artikel.pdf
Togehter with this time is different you’ll see the probabiltiy of Greek defaulting is very high and because of the sell of of bonds one can see, all but the deledefs think a default is inevitable.
There are at least two of them here in Euro land. Named Merkel and Sarkozy
Why do I write that? Well they want to keep Greece floating with anohter staging 120 billion bill fo all the europeans. Well they did not tell us they will give this money out at once, but in the end
we’ll have given the Greek something around 200 – 400 billions.
That you got an idea on how much that really is. There are roughly 500 millions living in Europe. (According to Wikipedia) so now let’c caluclate with 300 billions new debt
we have 300 000 000 000 / 500 000 000 = 600 €/each. So for a family of four nearly 2500 €. This money will have to be “spend” in roughly 3 years. So this makes every year for 800 extra payments for paying principal (you know the
other EU countries simply do not have any reserves they just can “pay” this help with another round of debts)
Now how many Greeks are there? 10.688.058 according to: http://www.geographixx.de/einwohner/infos.asp?land=Griechenland
Now three hundred billions of debt are per inhabitant: 300000000000/10500000 = 28571 €.
Surely more than what each inhabitant earns a year.
Everyone but the deledefs can see that this is not bearable. And so things will come as they have to Greece will default. No surprise at all but for the deledefs. And
two of the most stupid are deciding that sinking that much money will “help”. This is so ridicoulous stupid that it’s beyond any understanding.
There’s a saying in Germany “Gut Ding will Weile haben” it seems the english counterpart is “haste makes waste”
At least a few probably have risen their head to see the light. They now tell us: “There’s no Euro crisis” (which is true because) “we have a debt crisis” which surely is true. Just leave aside the fact that
our money in the end is debt. So all our money is part of a really debt problem. Money should not be debt but value is the way to go in the shortest possible run. But indeed the Euro is not responsible for
careleless debt piling. Nobody in Greece was forced to accept debts and more debt and even more debts.
So let’s see debt not as the “money debt” but the debt of bonds etc. The bankrupt of Greece would not make the Euro suddenly worthless. Just the debt of the bonds would be “gone” (well more or less) So quite a few billions of debt would “vanish”. (Agreed they do not vanish into nothing, but Greece would see the result. If it ever will come back for asking fresh money in form of new bonds. People would surely require a premium. Despite anything this would be a good thing. If you know you have to bear quite a lot of intereste you’ll be cautious to improve your ranking and you will not pile up debts that fast. Unfortunatly this is not a “never ending story”, but that’s another “party”.
Now to see this debt problem and not make it worth with even more debt would be prudent policy. But as we now prudent and policy do not have anything in common but the first letter. Now with the inprudent policy of giving away 110 billion !! a year ago. The imprudence has make it a lot worth. Instead of let’s say 600 billions debts Greece now has 700 billions debt. And guess what it does not have lighten their burden in fact the landing will get harder. And do not add another unwise step the politicians should face it with a straight face. Greece is bankrupt now let’s see that we get over it without civil war. The way always is the same. The debitiors must bear the bill. If some of them will broke over it, then we must let them go also. I guess this later implications is what the deledefs fear more than anything else. So they probably will not “face” it but prolongate the suffering….
Well they name it euphemistic “safety chute” and they simple ignore laws they themselves have decided.
Last year it was Greece, this year it’s going to be Ireland. Well the Irish have lived beyond any means and have obviously had a way too high
“growth” rate in the paste. However the most depressign figure is that that have new debts of nearly one third of their complete balance.
Now Europe will again throw out money, we do not have for problems based on too easy money. An examplary Ponzi Scheme this time the defrauders control themselves and will held every single European citizen as hostage.
I guess you can imagine how angry I am..
Regards
Friedrich
Yeah guys. the TARP money has “vanished” like snow in the sun. Nobodoy know cares or ask where it’s gone. Now the EU has seen it and though by themselves.
What a great thing. Money for nothing and the gigs for free… And voila now it’s there the EUR TARP program. Well it’s not Troubled Assets Reliefe Program for banks but
TMMAR (take my money and run) for defrauders. Greece is the first which will take this money, of course they will not thank the EU for buying them out. No that would be for “normal people”, Germany is “enemy” number one and well Germany is the biggest payer (well they pay with debts not even fiat-money, but that’s another story) Welll so the start are around 22.4 Billions. Well the “planned tax
releaf was 24 Billion. But now the “iron” cancecellor has cancled it. It’s not tax relief the next 3 years. It’s more important to safe other countrioes and especially the Euro. But
how can you save a currency if you devaluate it? I don’t know the US has started the big number game and now EU starts their game. Who will went south first?
Who will be the winner. Could it be that the Chinese just can’t get to sleep because the laugh at us? Could it be that now the Chinese simply buy whatever they can an “extend” their market place?
Just see what they do in Africa, the help buiding the infrastructure and get crucial things in return. Germany and the US simply do not get that an burn their money in wars without sense. Yes I think it could be the chinese time. Howerver be cautious to not get in conflict with the Partei….. If the chinese would be clever they’d bound their currency to something of value and soonner or later they will get all the US and EU area stuff for “an apple and an egg”…. On the other hand just imagine China starts selling their US-$ Bonds…..They do not even need an apple or an egg, civil war will finish the US and EU and they litereally get it all for “free”…
Exaggerations? May be, but just tell me what worth is the FIat money? Indeed nothing…. It’s just numbers on a paper….
However just see this numbers
8 700 000 000 000
750 000 000 000
The first is the “total debt” of the EU countries, and the second is the TARP money. It’s not even 10% of the “open debt sum”. Now tell me something about leverage….
How much worse does it have to get before start improving?
Now it’s done. Laws so not save non-defrauders but,helps defrauders to accomplish their raids. The US and EU are the first countries with laws, which help
criminals. And even best a party supposed to be more liberal than anything els here has say yes to it. From 95 or so just 3 have say no, this has
nothing to to with liberalism. Unfortunatly we just know one of the few which has say no. Howerver it also means that nearl 95% of the FDP politicians
have not even betray their voters but also their principles. It was not the first time they did so. Fortunatly on Sunday there is a voting in the largestt (population wise) in Germany, let’s hope and pray the FDP will have to go. And let’s hope they thake the SPD, CDU, Greens, and Linke with them.
Let’s also hope that the Bundesverfassungsgericht will judge that this is against our “Grundgesetzt”. … If betraying, theft and blackmailing will be “considred” good while done by politicians, than you know ” war is near”…..
If you invest in the EU or Euro zone be prepard to not just econimic hindrance, expect
the worst from politicians. Think of taxes on investments and the like and you may not be suprised.
If you feel contract have to be obeyed, then forget this as soon as you make contracts with governement
agencies. Be prepared for confiscations also. We did it in Germany in 2009, we socialiczed the HRE.
If you think we’re talking about Peanuts, well we are currently at around 100 000 000 000 Peanuts and counting, according to a few numbers it seems
another 15 000 000 000 are due for the “quality papers” of the Greek governement.
Rumours were coming up talking about another 280 000 000 000 help for the “spanish” governement.
Which have probably driven down the DAX yesterday at around 2%. If you think deledes have learnef from the Failout Plans, well think again.
There is not border in sight which may hold back the politicians to drive Europe down into misery. So are you prepared to loose your money or see it getting burned?
If yes, invest in Euro land if not, well take your money and run. You will not find a lot of alternatives,but a few may be there. Have a look at Switzerland, Australie, New Zealand, maybe Canada. I’d avoid the following countries like the plague. Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Germany, France, Austria and nearly every country related to good ole Europe but also avoid the US. Those mostly have been burried. Do you want your grave there too?
They are a little bit further on their way, the fed takes all the papers issued by the governement and filed it under “asset” and because of this assets they can print money, and more money and more. Money needs trust or value, our current currencies mostly havn’t anything of it at all. Trust? Well how can you trust someone who just has collected debts the last 50 years? What value has paper? How difficult could it be to print 1 000 000 000 000 bills? Imagine some german experiences.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Inflation_1914_bis_1923#Banknoten_und_M.C3.BCnzen_der_Hyperinflation
I just pick up the “most impressive” number.
4.200.000.000.000,00
that was the price for one US-Dollar in 1923. The largest bank not has been 100 000 000 000 000. It was printed on a sheet of paper, that’ all and that’s all there is to probably every currency currently. As I asked. What should prevent the next Hperinflation? Our politician aka deledes?
Ok now it’s “nearly” done the great Country Pontzi Scheme goes on. The EU will decide (whith high likliness) that 110 MRD new credits
will be given to Greece. Germany alone has to “bear” 28 MRD. Interstingly enough the first number has been 8 MRD now within 14 days
we get an 350 % increase. Currently Germany has to get new debts to pay for old ones. Now how long can such a thing persist?
Ah yes there are treaties which mean. Live within your financial bounds. But they are not even worth the paper they’re written on. As a a single person you
do not have the slightes chance to go to court for such things.
Because of all this I invented (maybe someone else has done it before ) a new term for politicions. In Germany it’s delebets, in Englilsh it probably will be
DEmotracic LEgitimized DEfrauders. Soo its deledes. I’d prefer to use this term in the future. I’d encourage you to use it also if you seem it fit.
from Greece is in free fall. Now it’s Junk-bond status. The interest has risen to above 10%.
Well Greeks the EUR is just “paper” money. So there’s always the “solutio” of hyperinflation.
Unfortunatly you are not alone with the EUR. So you are a bit more lucky this time, Politicians can’t get away
that easy as usual. Now start thinking. Wouldn’t it be good to get rid of your Politicans ans Buerocrats.
Just one quater is working for the governement so 75% are “not” working for the the governement.
How about getting this figure a bit higher. I guess 95% not working for governement should be more than sufficient…
I propose that after getting rid of them, you see that you get corruption in the governement banned. Let them earn their money,
don’t allow them to black-mail you any longer. See that you get rid of most of your military stuff also, and get back to
the ostracism. And revive.
If you follow your current “stuff”, well be prepared for really hard times
they will not served.
the EU will pay for the debts of Greece:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8508688.stm
needless to say:
http://dejure.org/gesetze/AEUV/126.html
and
http://dejure.org/gesetze/AEUV/125.html
Now a giant new lie is done.
Don’t count on the fact that you have written contracts. If it pleases the EU politicians you
can do whatever you like with it…
Even frauds, are not a reason to throw out the defrauders. So the questions about help for those breaking all rules, are answered.
The politicians do not care a bit. If they steal, they name it taxes, if the do black-mailing it’s helping EU partners. If it’s burning money, then they all are there
every counter but one has debts over debts and nothing more. And then they’ll go for another round of “stealing”.
You don’t believe me? well check:
Artikel 125, Artikel 126 AEUV and you’ll see what they are doing.
I was once proud of a few things in Germany, now I’m loosing the laste respect for anything….
Well it seems Liberals will see tough times in the near future, till it will turn out that
they got it right. Let’s wait which country bankruptcy will be the tombstone of this ever progressing socialism.
Now it will get interesting for Greece, Portugal, Spain and maybe Italy (funny enough they name them PIGS) in the EU. Very unfair to our
4 -feeted giving bacon, cotelettes etc animals. Fair enough Greece would prefer a EU solution will say countries which did it better (not right) will have to
bear those who used FUD. That’s really progress, at first the banks did black-mailing and now the governements follow. Suprise factor is not very high, isnt it?
What also will happen in just a month the “civil” (well they call them themselves “civil” ) majority will face a serious loose of one country (one of the bigges in Germany NRW).
And one of the biggest looser will be the ex “free” democratic party (FDP), which has say goodby to freedom at least nearly two years ago. There is nothing to replace them.
And so the liberals will get marginalized. They will be the margin then which will stand between starving to death and live. And they’ll see a revival, when people start anew. But the Hydra
of Buraucracy and “governement” will just be temporary suspended. If it’s getting better and better they will raise their ugly head again. And another round of stealing, black-mailing etc will take place.
Man may be intelligent or at least can act intelligent, and is able to learn, men …. well it seems let’s have some mass and intelligence will flee.
Just a reminder the EU president Baroso, wants an action to help out Greece.
The Maastricht Vertrag is very clear about this:
Die Union haftet nicht für die Verbindlichkeiten der
Zentralregierungen, der regionalen oder lokalen Gebietskörperschaften
oder anderen öffentlich-rechtlichen Körperschaften, sonstiger
Einrichtungen des öffentlichen Rechts oder öffentlicher Unternehmen von
Mitgliedstaaten und tritt nicht für derartige Verbindlichkeiten ein;
Read the union if not liable for the debts of any other country.
So the presidents asks for exactly the opposite. And he’s still in charge….
Another “paper tiger”. the EU countries are not permitted to have more than 3% new depbs of the GDP. Well there’s probably just one or two countries around adhereing to this.
And again it shows, Fiat-money always falls back to it’s intrinsic value -> nothing.
Ah, well somone would call it “Living in interesting times”. I’d rather read it like, going to die.
The EU considers now (b)failing out Countries, our first try Greece, next stop (who knows) but it can’t took that long
till it’s Germany. I guess this will be the mother of all failouts. I wonder which country can affort to buy out us Germans. I don’t expect the USA beeing capable of that.
No bailout has worked till now but that does not hinder politicians to try again with another trillion…
Howerver if there are laws against such things. In short it’s. “No country has to guarantee for debts of another country”. So yes it was “never” allowed to do so, but
they’re trying hard to “revert” that. And from there on moral hazard is all there will be. Who will judge which country to bailout and which one will be allowed to fail.
The end will be poverty everywhere and with high likliness, war. It never has been different and I’m not that optimistic that this will change. After the war there will no welfare any longer
just what people will do to help another. And the buroeaucrats will linger in the background, waiting patiently to show there cruelty again…
It’s depressing.